Good game and narrative are sometimes opposites of each other and cant work well together.

Usually..better the game, more control the player needs.
Or..better the story, more control the story teller needs

Seeems we cant have both.
Games that tell stories must strike a balance between authorial control, and player power over the narrative.

Here is the article that can explain it with deeper meaning.
how gameplay and narrative kill meaning in games !!!

The STORY side of things needs to be separated form the game.
The problem and why it is not working [in my case] others seem to not care,is that the story aspect is the ONLY thing the game has going for it.

Perfect example is SWOTR,i feel the game on a whole is just not good enough,very shallow in it's design.However all the defenders are saying "the story is great ". I strongly disagree but whatever, even if i agreed that is the problem with the game,it does nothing else well. Even the story aspect is always the same generic design, red light green light,pretty sad really and ruins the immersive feeling a game should have.

I want to feel immersed and surprised in my game,i don't want to see a red room and think man ok so the story is locked out or see a green light and think ok so this is the cutscene coming up and with a predictable conspiracy theory. There is no thrill or excitement when you see and know what is coming.

This is why EVE is the best game for me. It allows the players to control the narrative. Our stories are our own. We drive the interactions and the narratives, even if they are sometimes little more than two school boys rolling around on the playground yelling "I did not!" and "You did too!"

The Last of Us and Witcher 3, however, were the best interactive stories I've ever played. The problem with interactive stories, however, is much the same as movies. Once you've seen them the first time, there's not a whole lot of value out of revisiting them.

Nobody is mentioning Wolfenstein The New Order with its heavilly fortified story-driven plot.
I mean i had monumental crush on that title. Still am. They canceled sequel becouse of some minor argue in Machinegamesstudio. Noobs

SIEG Blazkowicz



Voiceovers, cinematics and all around experience is underrated. That alternate universe was story-proof. Even OST was impeccable.
When I played that, on summer 2015 they were also delivering DOOM keys for testers. Really a blast of the game.

Machinegames should be rewarded for artfully working unsanitized references to real-life Nazi atrocities into its alternate history story without fear of offending anybody. You're given startling glimpses into Nazi's systematic mistreatment of the mentally ill and handicapped, a first-hand look at a forced labor camp, and plenty of allusions to Nazi treatment of non-Aryan people around the world, including in occupied America.

What are you talking about Lump? I didn't play The Last of Us so I cant talk about its replayability but the Witcher games have a bunch of choices you can make during the game that make a big difference on the course of the game so replaying it definitively has value. I usually play through all my rpgs twice, once going on the "good" path, and then on the "evil" one. Even with games where that doesn't make big of a difference I like to see the "evil" dialogue options if nothing less, but in the Witcher those differences aren't based only on dialogue and are much more significant.

I would agree about EVE being awesome for giving the players the freedom to make their own stories, and their own economy for that matter, and that is what makes EVE a truly unique game but I wouldn't call that storytelling in the traditional sense. The very concept of the game is too different to be compared to any rpg or game with a set story line.

I wouldn't agree that in order for the gameplay to be good the story needs to suffer, or vice versa. It happens to be sure, but I think that when it does it's more to do with the designers focusing on one aspect or the other and neglecting the rest. I wouldn't say that it has to happen that way, just that sometimes it unfortunately does. A truly good game will be able to have an awesome story AND fun gameplay, and there are plenty of examples of those. Just from the top of my head I can name Baldur's Gate, Planescape Torment and Mass Effect but I'm sure there are more.
Now if we are talking about linear versus nonlinear storylines that is another matter altogether.

Also, How in the nine hells can SWOTR have a good story? How can any MMO have a good story? I'm not saying it has to be terrible but I just don't know how can you have a good story in a nonlinear, quest grinding MMO where singleplayer is a secondary aspect to the game and your character, the "hero" of the story in question, is just one guy in a sea of other players who should also be "the hero". How would that even work?

@RATHAMON bro, u mad?
It seems we speak the same wisdom with different language. I was relating to that exactly. Last of Us & W3 has fullfilled my need for story driven requirements, completely.

Lumpenstinzkin wrote: Ummm, no. Why would I be?
You said that they are the best interactive stories you played. With this I agree. But you also said that they have no replay value or to be precise "Once you've seen them the first time, there's not a whole lot of value out of revisiting them.", and that is the part I don't agree with. That's all, there is no buthurtness on my part

How come people are still ignoring magnificent crew cast in Blizzard?
THey are trying to surpass themselves with new plot twist, reaching out for younger audience of HC gamers.
Collaboration is announced with kids book publisher.
New breed of well educated gamers I want some diapers!



Imagine that possibilites after few generation of analog_ly adjusted minds. New moderators and clan readers.