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TOPIC: Goth elitism

Goth elitism 4 years 1 month ago #1452

Like:
I don't have to shave my armpits every day, it is ok to some extent to be a bit hairy sometimes, no need for shame.
Than that turned into:
I"M A WOMAN! i DON'T SHAVE!!!! YOU CAN'T MAKE ME!!! I'LL PAINT MY ARMPIT HAIR BRIGHT ORANGE!!! FUCK YOU IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT YOU ARE SEXIST PIG!!!!!

Sorry about the caps, but I always imagine those people constantly yelling :D
Did you mean that kind of extremes? :D
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Goth elitism 4 years 1 month ago #1462

Any kind of subcultural elitism is infantile if you ask me. The way I see it, when you are young and are trying to find your identity you tend to follow the "rules and regulations" of a certain subculture almost religiously. You listen to what you (and others) think a person belonging to said subculture should listen to, you wear what you think a person like that should wear... and that's fine. Don't misunderstand me, it's wrong, but at that stage in your life it's understandable because, paradoxically, we who tend to go for alternative subcultures do so because we want to differ from the mainstream but at the same time we don't want to be complete loners and want a fringe group of our own to belong to.
But what happens as you get older (or at least what should happen) is that you figure out that you don't need to conform to a certain group or style in order to have a personal identity, if anything that is exactly what you shouldn't do.
You shed the aspects of your subculture that you never really cared for, you retain the aspect that you like and that drew you to it in the first place, and you give it your own personal touch.... In general you just don't care that much anymore. You listen to what you personally think sounds good, you wear what you think looks good and you don't obsess over whether that fits into a certain fashion style or musical genre.

I just know that 19 year old me would be disgusted with who I am now and I find that laughable and adorable. In contrast with that angry little kid who would bend over backwards just to show how "true" he is, the me today has nothing to prove to anyone... I still like certain goth music but I also really enjoy listening to some random stuff like Mongolian folk music.... I still like the aesthetics of goth fashion and makeup but that doesn't stop me from wearing flip flops or baggy sweatpants when I feel like it.

I am who I am, I like what I like, how people chose to perceive and categorize that is of absolutely no concern to me
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Goth elitism 4 years 1 month ago #1481

Nicely done @Nuada! I wouldn't say this better myself :D
I think that a 15yo me would have a heart attack if she had a chance to observe me for a day :) Funny how we develop....
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Goth elitism 4 years 1 week ago #2027

Some of us are underdeveloped :unsure: and just becouse of that flaw more interesting to larger population as...more alternative.?!

The minority of people should stay minority and somehow protected or divided from those who are swarming alternative space in numbers, that are only undermining everything established by older generations of Gothic community.

New doesnt mean better, on contrary :angry:
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Goth elitism 3 years 7 months ago #2827

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I remember back in the early 90s when I first discovered some "gothic" people in my surroundings. They looked nothing like the goths I then found in magazines and album covers. They had their unique styles and personas but had such great admiration for other styles and were open minded about it all. They acted differently, think differently, they were "not from this Earth" if you know what I mean. And that is what I liked the most about them. In mid 90s I discovered industrial music and fell in love with it, all these machine driven emotion and loudness and everything, repetition, aggression and unique style. I really loved it all but also loved the other music genres and stuff equally. In early 2000s I began Internet chats with "dark people", "industrial people", "goth people", "rivetheads" and find out about dark driven tastes and new music that basically didn't even fit in the same universe as goth and industrial music that I knew but they said it was "something that's from the gothic music charts of today" and they all blindly followed it . These new people in the scene had nothing in common with the "goth" guys & girls I met in early 90s. I firstly thought - ok, everything changes, give peace a chance :D It's the new style of this genres. But then, I found out that in the end everybody looked the same, acted certain way, like this "10 commandments of albums", disliked this, etc.... It all went back in the 80s, 5 albums, 7 artists, and this new post-00s stuff that really had nothing to do with it all. Not musically - but poetically. I never understood how can you portray an individual driven life nowdays and be so close-minded about the rest of the genres and follow just one stream? Then it was a lot of talk what is goth and what isn't....there were furious internet disputes over forums and chat rooms. If you said to someone you just couldn't stand The Cure or The Smiths or any of that whinny stuff, you we're marked as "not-true" or simply "stupid about it all". Elitists have always be a majority, you can see them in the clubs as 5-6 people hanging and thinking the same all the time. Time just passes, they stay the same for eternity, opinions don't change, mind does not learn new. And believe me that the case in goth music scene is better than the case in industrial scene - there you really got a bunch of lazy fascist, lonely people, thinking they rule the world for fucks sake. Listening to some crappy electrical circuits with screams, and thinking they are so 'industrial' as fuck. I really don't know what's with that 'tru' 'untru' shit? I never understood it. All I know is to feel a poser from a open-minded person. You can act and dress all you like and tell everybody that you're a goth, dark punk, industrial whatever - but in the end your opinions and thoughts will betray you. In the end, all that remain in the scene, after 2005 was this "gothic elite" and their clones. All acting the same way, just like in the bee hive. Listening to a queen bee, which is obviously some old 80s guy promoter of the scene trying to act young and fresh. I see it all the time in the clubs in Europe, it's always "one guy" who demolishes the scene, who has a cult following just because he was there in the 80s. So were everybody else, but that doesn't count - he had make-up and latex pants. :D and A lot of people I know, with myself included, wish nothing to do with this kind of scene, we feel alien there, it just sounds and looks like cheap dumb masquerade in rave discotheque. And if you say something against it "you're stupid about it all and a hater". Talking about gothic elitism is like talking about Mac Donalds, everybody talk they hate it, but in the end you'll see them there eating and smiling through the window. It's pathetic. And yup, nowdays it's cheap music scene as hell. When I look at all the new stuff, bands, clothes, cyber goth etc..... it's just too much undeveloped and infantile. They hook up with those lenses, vampire stuff, and this 90s rave culture clothing, and it all looks pretty dieselhead and ridiculous. I found more "tru" goths at concerts that got nothing to do with all of that. And this scene is not alone in this matter. Today, in Serbia, I can say I know one goth person and that's it, the other guy died 2 years ago. All the rest are pure metalheads that wear make-up trying to be or get laid. Where is originality and uniqueness of one's persona now? Mortisa Addams, Vampyra, Elvira, Marilyn Manson, Dracula movies.....they don't go much from there. It's just sad, plain and simple. I love difference and changes - but changes that goe further and forward, not backward... I'll let you know a secret - that goth guy that died, listened to Diamanda Galas, Sopor Aeternus and Alien Sex Fiend a-lot and wore plain addidas clothing. he was bisexual and knew a lot about literature and dark stuff. His unique mind made him so different and unique - that he didn't needed clothing to do that for him. He was different the way he was. And to accomplish that in life is - the "true" goth.
"If something is actual, there's really no need to believe in it. You only have to believe something if it isn't true, because if it were, belief wouldn't be necessary."
Last Edit: 3 years 7 months ago by dreddup.
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Goth elitism 3 years 7 months ago #2828

My mother always says that the goth scene is toxic since 1983 :cheer: And she should now, being among first darkers in then Yougoslavia :)
@Inquisitor, I can relate to 90% of what you wrote, but I would like to add one thing.
Elitist tend to bully anyone who is not in their cult following flock and I have experienced that on my own skin. A queen bee just couldn't wrap her brain around me not giving a flying fuck about how goth I looked or that I can like other music. She tried to convince me that I am a "goth royalty" and I should "rule the scene beside her" because of my background and my parents... Well, her whole point was laughable to me (and any self-respecting individual with some brain). Vengeance came quickly in form of gossip, hate, late night prank calls, drinks spilled on me and a physical attack at one point.
To be clear, I like going to goth parties and club nights, I enjoy the music and have many friends, I'm not there to show my goth off, I'm there to have good time and dance.
So I ignored the bullying from this pack of people and kept moving on, doing my own thing. I never even commented on her behavior, not even if directly asked what is going on. Why? The worst thing you can do to that kind of people is to not react to them, that really hurts their ego.
One day, tables turned, and she depended on me and my good word :evil:
I still helped her, I sad nothing because I could see the scared look on her face and I am not a vengeful person + good karma points and no more drama around me :D
I will not be forgotten This is my time to shine I've got the scars to prove it
Only the strong survive
I'm not afraid of dying Everyone has their time Life never favored weakness
Welcome to the pride
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Goth elitism 3 years 7 months ago #2831

I never understood that whole concept of a "goth community" with rules and regulations. When I was growing up I wasn't really aware of something like that, I just had peculiar tastes ever since I was a kid. Even as very little, in my make believe, I would pretend to be the witch rather than the princess. I discovered a lot of the music I listened to through my cousin (who listens to metal mostly) and I was probably influenced by him a bit, but it was my personal taste that determined what I liked and eventually I started to look for and find music for myself. Only after going to a new school and meeting some friends did I found out that I am considered a goth. And even those friends, who knew way more than me about the community and the culture, weren't sticklers for detail... they didn't care about being "true" goths or not. We happened to have a lot of the same interests and because of them we happened to fall into the "category" of goth so we used that name and identified with it, but we saw it as just that... a name! Not a title that you can somehow be worthy or unworthy of! :S
Even if we were similar in many respects, enough to all be called "goth", we also stood out from each other in many ways. So I always asked myself why does it have to be a million different groups with highly specific rules and etiquettes? Why can't it just be considered goth in very broad strokes, because having a name for something is kinda useful, but with all kinds of varying and unique styles within that category... or better yet, fuck having a name! Why cant it be just Isabell's mostly gothy but also slightly punky look, or Sellvy's unique style or whatever... you know, just personal and unique for every individual :lol:
Sorry, I went on a rant :blush: It's just that these kinds of talks always piss me off :P
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Goth elitism 3 years 7 months ago #2838

But it's like that in every alternative subculture. If it's goths or metalheads or punks or whatever, it's always the same. There are always posers on one side and, on the other, people who didn't choose to be goths or metalheads but grew to belong to that group naturally. Sometimes those posers can have more influence on the community in your town but that's just because they try so damn hard, and if you are a true fan you just don't give that much fucks :P
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Goth elitism 3 years 6 months ago #2857

I don't know much about goth culture because I'm not one, but I have to agree wholeheartedly with this last statement. It's not like that just in music subcultures but also in the gaming community and even politics. The voices with the most backwards/deranged/stupid/fucked up opinions are usually the loudest. It's goddamned depressing when popular opinion is swayed by people who zealously vomit forth their idiotic stances because they are bloody no lifers who have nothing better to do but obsess about their areas of interest while normal people have actual lives and don't have time to get into never ending flame wars in order to push their agenda and make their opinions known
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Goth elitism 3 years 6 months ago #2864

Can someone please explain Elitist Goth to me?
Is that a new trend like Nu Goth or Pastel Goth or I'm completely missing a mark here :lol:
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